[darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

[Jason Verlen]

Darktable Users:

I am new to Darktable. Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really impressed. Fantastic program. And then I had a problem...

I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.

I tried to Print an image for the first time. It seems that Darktable won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to print black and white images. Is this true or am I not using it correctly?

If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have to stay with LightRoom for now. My experience with ABW is very positive - black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.

Thanks

Jason____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+***@lists.darktable.org

[Patrick Shanahan]

Post by Jason Verlen
I am new to Darktable. Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really impressed. Fantastic program. And then I had a problem...
I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
I tried to Print an image for the first time. It seems that Darktable won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to print black and white images. Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have to stay with LightRoom for now. My experience with ABW is very positive - black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.

iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
cups, hplip, .... and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
printer to put your image to paper.

you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.

googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson. do
you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
look.

[Pascal Obry]

Post by Patrick Shanahan
iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer
handler, cups, hplip, .... and *you* tell the print handler how you
want the printer to put your image to paper.

Yes, exactly. Except that it only support cups. So you just have to
create a cups queue with the proper parameters.

[Jason Verlen]

Guys

Let me explain better. I'm on a Mac, not Linux. When I print from Lightroom it exposes the Epson print utility screens in Lightroom. These screens let me select the paper type (glossy, luster, matte, etc), do advanced settings (e.g. Platen gap and width for heavier papers), configure the tone color if I am printing black and white using the epson Abw rip, and much more.

Darktable print does not seem to access the Epson print capability. There is no way to print properly without it. Unless I am missing something.

Should Darktable integrate the Epson print utility windows just like Lightroom?

Thanks

Jas

Sent from my iPhone

Post by Patrick Shanahan

Post by Jason Verlen
I am new to Darktable. Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really impressed. Fantastic program. And then I had a problem...
I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
I tried to Print an image for the first time. It seems that Darktable won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to print black and white images. Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have to stay with LightRoom for now. My experience with ABW is very positive - black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.

iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
cups, hplip, .... and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
printer to put your image to paper.
you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.
googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson. do
you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
look.
--
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535
____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

[Patrick Shanahan]

Post by Jason Verlen
Guys
Let me explain better. I'm on a Mac, not Linux. When I print from Lightroom it exposes the Epson print utility screens in Lightroom. These screens let me select the paper type (glossy, luster, matte, etc), do advanced settings (e.g. Platen gap and width for heavier papers), configure the tone color if I am printing black and white using the epson Abw rip, and much more.
Darktable print does not seem to access the Epson print capability. There is no way to print properly without it. Unless I am missing something.
Should Darktable integrate the Epson print utility windows just like Lightroom?
Thanks
Jas
Sent from my iPhone

Post by Patrick Shanahan

Post by Jason Verlen
I am new to Darktable. Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really impressed. Fantastic program. And then I had a problem...
I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
I tried to Print an image for the first time. It seems that Darktable won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to print black and white images. Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have to stay with LightRoom for now. My experience with ABW is very positive - black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.

iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
cups, hplip, .... and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
printer to put your image to paper.
you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.
googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson. do
you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
look.
--
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535
____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
camera, raw or jpg/tiff/... it doesn't control your printer, it only
sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.

using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.

and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!

ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.

[HaJo Schatz]

Post by Patrick Shanahan
darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?

I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...

using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.

I'd probably rather export as TIFF from darktable and print with e.g. GIMP.
That's what I do anyhow, albeit not to an EPSON printer.

[Robert Krawitz]

Post by HaJo Schatz

Post by Patrick Shanahan
darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?

It could use IPP or it could use PPD files. Either way, it may be
choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about. This could be
problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
features that aren't represented in profiles.

Post by HaJo Schatz
I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.

Very.

Post by HaJo Schatz
I'd probably rather export as TIFF from darktable and print with e.g. GIMP.
That's what I do anyhow, albeit not to an EPSON printer.

[Jason Verlen]

Everyone

Thanks for all the additional info.

It is clear that everyone’s input shows they are at a higher level with understanding the mechanics of what is underneath printing than I am. Most probably you are Linux users and are therefore more capable of working this out on your own.

I think this an opportunity for Darktable. Adobe’s pricing policy for Lightroom users basically doubles or even triples the price from what they are used to paying - for a program that is basically not being developed very much. This will generate more interest in Darktable from Mac users. They will most likely run into exactly the same challenge on printing that i have run into. I believe both the Epson and Canon print windows are SDKs that Lightroom integrates with…nobody is suggesting Darktable becomes a print program…what I am suggesting is maybe Darktable should investigate the same integration for Mac users.

In the meantime I think my approach of exporting from Darktable and printing with Epson Print Layout program will do the trick, albeit in a clunky multistep way. The Epson Layout program has access to most of the needed settings (even for the ABW rip for black and white) and it quite easy to use and allows you to save Presets making it very efficient.

All in all I approached Darktable thinking it would be “good for the money”. What I have concluded is that it is quite simply a better program than Lightroom. It is amazing actually. But the printing issue will stifle many potential users.

Thanks

Jason.

Post by Robert Krawitz

Post by HaJo Schatz

Post by Patrick Shanahan
darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?

It could use IPP or it could use PPD files. Either way, it may be
choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about. This could be
problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
features that aren't represented in profiles.

Post by HaJo Schatz
I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.

Very.

Post by HaJo Schatz
I'd probably rather export as TIFF from darktable and print with e.g. GIMP.
That's what I do anyhow, albeit not to an EPSON printer.

--
*** MIT Engineers A Proud Tradition http://mitathletics.com ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net
"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton
____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

Hello,

 

I think we all have gotten bad habits because of too much facilities offered by some system that is "get all you want with no effort"-oriented.

When going to Linux, I found my Canon 4850 which printed fairly fine on Windows produced awful printouts on Linux *with the same software* - this is important -.

It was a photo development software, just like DT, but it was totally unable to print correctly whatever it sent to my printer, though I had no problems with other software as LibreOffice, for instance.

A few googleing later, I learnt that each piece of software is built to deal with its capabilities : a print driver to drive a printer, a word processor to type text, aso. and a raw converter to deal with photos. Thus, each one makes its job at its best (is that really english ?).

And each developper can focus on its goal and doesn't waste resources trying to reinvent the wheel.

I solved my problem buying a cheap piece of software that perfectly can drive my printer (among many others). It does its job, rather well and efficiently. Its name : turboprint.

Maybe is there such a thing for your Mac ? At the time I heard about Mac's for the first time (1985), they used to be very good. And very, very, very expensive, too.

The second has slightly changed, would the first have, too ?

 

Regards,

 

J.-Luc

 

 

 

 

Message du 14/03/17 19:07
De : "Jason Verlen"
A : "Robert Krawitz"
Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode
Everyone
Thanks for all the additional info.
It is clear that everyone’s input shows they are at a higher level with understanding the mechanics of what is underneath printing than I am. Most probably you are Linux users and are therefore more capable of working this out on your own.
I think this an opportunity for Darktable. Adobe’s pricing policy for Lightroom users basically doubles or even triples the price from what they are used to paying - for a program that is basically not being developed very much. This will generate more interest in Darktable from Mac users. They will most likely run into exactly the same challenge on printing that i have run into. I believe both the Epson and Canon print windows are SDKs that Lightroom integrates with
nobody is suggesting Darktable becomes a print program
what I am suggesting is maybe Darktable should investigate the same integration for Mac users.
In the meantime I think my approach of exporting from Darktable and printing with Epson Print Layout program will do the trick, albeit in a clunky multistep way. The Epson Layout program has access to most of the needed settings (even for the ABW rip for black and white) and it quite easy to use and allows you to save Presets making it very efficient.
All in all I approached Darktable thinking it would be “good for the money”. What I have concluded is that it is quite simply a better program than Lightroom. It is amazing actually. But the printing issue will stifle many potential users.
Thanks
Jason.

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Patrick Shanahan

darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.

But wouldn't print modules of SW probe printer settings through -- correct
me if I'm wrong -- PPD files and hence offer printer-specific settings?
Such as dpi, ink control, black.white, etc?

It could use IPP or it could use PPD files. Either way, it may be
choosing to not offer options it doesn't know about. This could be
problematic, because some options may be needed to control printer
features that aren't represented in profiles.

I never printed with darktable but I do know that Gimp does offer me
printer-specific options for my cups-driven printer...
using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
By setting print-defaults in cups? Cumbersome, IMHO.

Very.

I'd probably rather export as TIFF from darktable and print with e.g. GIMP.
That's what I do anyhow, albeit not to an EPSON printer.

--
Robert Krawitz
*** MIT Engineers A Proud Tradition http://mitathletics.com ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint -- http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net
"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton
____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

[Jason Polak]

I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is
not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.

All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work.
Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's
the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it
possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this
process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?

Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can
help the OP, without the attitude.

Jason

Post by Patrick Shanahan
darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.
darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
camera, raw or jpg/tiff/... it doesn't control your printer, it only
sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.
using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!
ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.

[Tobias Ellinghaus]

Post by Jason Polak
I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is
not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.
All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work.
Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's
the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it
possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this
process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?

I never printed from dt as I don't even have a printer. But what I know is
that the system was designed to NOT offer all those capabilities on purpose.
The reason being that a printer profile is only valid for one specific set of
settings. Encouraging the use of printer profiles while suggesting that fiddling
with controls at the same time was sane is misleading the user. Thus: No
settings. If CUPS is somehow able to pop up the driver window on its own then
that might be used, but dt isn't doing that for you.

Post by Jason Polak
Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can
help the OP, without the attitude.
Jason

HTH,
Tobias

[...]

[Robert Krawitz]

Post by Tobias Ellinghaus

Post by Jason Polak
I don't understand why this reply had to be so snarky. Wow, darktable is
not Lightroom! I never could have guessed that.
All the guy wants to do is figure out the steps to get printing to work.
Yes, we get it that the job is sent to the printer queue, and then it's
the user's job to do the rest...so how is that done exactly? Is it
possible to get OS X to bring up a similar Epson print dialog in this
process or not (which may not necessarily be a question about Darktable)?

I never printed from dt as I don't even have a printer. But what I know is
that the system was designed to NOT offer all those capabilities on purpose.
The reason being that a printer profile is only valid for one specific set of
settings. Encouraging the use of printer profiles while suggesting that fiddling
with controls at the same time was sane is misleading the user. Thus: No
settings. If CUPS is somehow able to pop up the driver window on its own then
that might be used, but dt isn't doing that for you.

Not everyone has fully profiled workflows. If your full workflow
isn't profiled, you may need adjustments to correct for your monitor;
if your printer/driver/paper combo isn't profiled (Gutenprint, for
example, is a volunteer project, and we don't have the resources to
profile printer/driver/paper combinations), you may need significant
adjustments to get useful output.

Post by Tobias Ellinghaus

Post by Jason Polak
Hopefully someone with access to this equipment or a similar setup can
help the OP, without the attitude.

[Jason Verlen]

All

I am using the Epson Print Layout program to do the final printing.
I export from DT in the highest possible resolution jpg.
Then I leave DT and go into Epson Print Layout, and print from there.
The Epson program is free and offers control over most things including the Epson ABW model.
The GUI is very easy to use.
The only thing I can’t set through it is platen gap and width of the printer.
But it is possible it is widening somewhat through my choice of front feed which the interface does support.

I think this approach is a bit clunky as it is several steps vs. just printing within the LR program, but it does seem to work just fine.
It is probably a good answer for MAC users.

One note…i tried exporting tiff from DT to get the best resolution, but the Epson program wouldn’t read it.
The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may have a bug in its tiff export.

Jason.

Post by Patrick Shanahan

Post by Jason Verlen
Guys
Let me explain better. I'm on a Mac, not Linux. When I print from Lightroom it exposes the Epson print utility screens in Lightroom. These screens let me select the paper type (glossy, luster, matte, etc), do advanced settings (e.g. Platen gap and width for heavier papers), configure the tone color if I am printing black and white using the epson Abw rip, and much more.
Darktable print does not seem to access the Epson print capability. There is no way to print properly without it. Unless I am missing something.
Should Darktable integrate the Epson print utility windows just like Lightroom?
Thanks
Jas
Sent from my iPhone

Post by Patrick Shanahan

Post by Jason Verlen
I am new to Darktable. Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really impressed. Fantastic program. And then I had a problem...
I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
I tried to Print an image for the first time. It seems that Darktable won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to print black and white images. Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have to stay with LightRoom for now. My experience with ABW is very positive - black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.

iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
cups, hplip, .... and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
printer to put your image to paper.
you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.
googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson. do
you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
look.
--
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535
____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.
darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
camera, raw or jpg/tiff/... it doesn't control your printer, it only
sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.
using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!
ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.
--
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535
____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

[Roman Lebedev]

Post by Jason Verlen
All
I am using the Epson Print Layout program to do the final printing.
I export from DT in the highest possible resolution jpg.
Then I leave DT and go into Epson Print Layout, and print from there.
The Epson program is free and offers control over most things including the Epson ABW model.
The GUI is very easy to use.
The only thing I can’t set through it is platen gap and width of the printer.
But it is possible it is widening somewhat through my choice of front feed which the interface does support.
I think this approach is a bit clunky as it is several steps vs. just printing within the LR program, but it does seem to work just fine.
It is probably a good answer for MAC users.
One note…i tried exporting tiff from DT to get the best resolution, but the Epson program wouldn’t read it.
The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may have a bug in its tiff export.

Any errors/messages?
To which bitdepths have you tried exporting the TIFF?

Does that program support striped TIFF's at all?

Post by Jason Verlen
Jason.

Roman.

Post by Jason Verlen

Post by Patrick Shanahan

Post by Jason Verlen
Guys
Let me explain better. I'm on a Mac, not Linux. When I print from Lightroom it exposes the Epson print utility screens in Lightroom. These screens let me select the paper type (glossy, luster, matte, etc), do advanced settings (e.g. Platen gap and width for heavier papers), configure the tone color if I am printing black and white using the epson Abw rip, and much more.
Darktable print does not seem to access the Epson print capability. There is no way to print properly without it. Unless I am missing something.
Should Darktable integrate the Epson print utility windows just like Lightroom?
Thanks
Jas
Sent from my iPhone

Post by Patrick Shanahan

Post by Jason Verlen
I am new to Darktable. Have experimented for a few weeks and I am really impressed. Fantastic program. And then I had a problem...
I was just about to say goodbye to Lightroom when I ran into a big snag.
I tried to Print an image for the first time. It seems that Darktable won’t let me use the Epson ABW (Advanced Black and White RIP) mode to print black and white images. Is this true or am I not using it correctly?
If this is true can I suggest that Darktable integrates the Epson ABW into a future version…this is unfortunately a show stopper for me and I’ll have to stay with LightRoom for now. My experience with ABW is very positive - black and white prints that are superior to printing in color mode.

iianm, darktable merely hands off the print job to your printer handler,
cups, hplip, .... and *you* tell the print handler how you want the
printer to put your image to paper.
you can send your image to your print handler as a black and white or grey
scale image or tell your printer to print it w/o color.
googling for "epson abw" indicates it is a driver provided by epson. do
you have that driver installed or is it even available for linux, I didn't
look.
--
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535
____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

darktable does not do the printing or manipulate the printer. it just
sends the job to the printer queue, cups. *you* tell the printer how to
handle the print job using whatever you have to control your printer.
darktable *will* *not* deny you the use of any printer, that is determined
by your operating system and the software you have installed to
control/access your printer.
darktable is an application to produce and alter graphic images from a
camera, raw or jpg/tiff/... it doesn't control your printer, it only
sends out a print job the the queue to be handled by and how you direct.
using/controlling "Epson ABW" is *your* job.
and darktable != lightroom, thank goodness!
ps: darktable will not open a beer or brew coffee for me.
--
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535
____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

____________________________________________________________________________
darktable user mailing list

[KOVÁCS István]

Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
Kofa

The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR
so i think DT may

have a bug in its tiff export.

[Remco Viëtor]

Post by KOVÁCS István
Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
Kofa

The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR
so i think DT may

have a bug in its tiff export.

___________________________________________________________________________
_

Post by KOVÁCS István
darktable user mailing list

TIFF is a complex format with a lot of 'dialects' and options, so problems with importing a TIFF
generated by another program are rather common. Not necessarily a bug in darktable.

But why do you need TIFF in this case? Afaik, PNG does almost everything TIFF does. the
only difference I know of is that PNG is limited to only one layer (TIFF can handle multilayer),
but that shouldn't be relevant if you use the file to print. (and PNG tends to give smaller files).

Remco

PS: Darktable (under linux) uses libtiff.so, so that might be the place to drop a bug report.

[Jason Verlen]

All

Roman thank you for the suggestion on trying png format. I am not familiar with this format but from what I am reading on the web it is lossless like tiff. I just tried it at 16 bit and the Epson Print Layout does in fact read it. This is great!

Kovacs in answer to your question I did the tiff export at 16 bit. You can’t turn off compression…I can’t remember which of the two i used (one has floating point the other doesn’t).

Want to thank everyone for pitching in. I think it might be a good project for someone capable to write a new module for Darktable called “Print-Epson” which would automatically link to the Epson SDK’s etc in a manner similar to Lightroom.

Jason

Post by KOVÁCS István
Tiff compression might also be the culprit.
Kofa

The Epson program reads a tiff export just fine from LR…so i think DT may have a bug in its tiff export.

[KOVÁCS István]

Post by Jason Verlen
Kovacs in answer to your question I did the tiff export at 16 bit. You
can’t turn off compression…I can’t remember which of the two i used (one has
floating point the other doesn’t).

Well, on Linux you can.
Loading Image...
I'd think that 16-bit (integer) uncompressed TIFF is pretty much
compatible with everything.

Kofa

[HaJo Schatz]

Post by Jason Verlen
Want to thank everyone for pitching in. I think it might be a good
project for someone capable to write a new module for Darktable called
“Print-Epson” which would automatically link to the Epson SDK’s etc in a
manner similar to Lightroom.

I'm by no means a printer-module or CUPS expert, but this approach sounds
wrong. Instead the generic printer-module should be modified to probe
printer-specific options from CUPS and then create and populate drop-downs
based on that data. CUPS provides this information, it's up to the printing
application to make use of it. See e.g. by trying "lpoptions -l" in your
terminal. Depending on what printer you have installed in CUPS, you should
see a different list of options there; including EPSON-specific. Choosing
the correct options that way might even pop-up the EPSON dialog, who
knows...

But anyway, I guess the core darktable developers have no strong interest
in this and it's easy enough to print through other applications which
implement dedicated interfaces...

[Robert Krawitz]

Post by HaJo Schatz

Post by Jason Verlen
Want to thank everyone for pitching in. I think it might be a good
project for someone capable to write a new module for Darktable called
'Print-Epson' which would automatically link to the Epson SDK's etc in a
manner similar to Lightroom.

I'm by no means a printer-module or CUPS expert, but this approach sounds
wrong. Instead the generic printer-module should be modified to probe
printer-specific options from CUPS and then create and populate drop-downs
based on that data. CUPS provides this information, it's up to the printing
application to make use of it. See e.g. by trying "lpoptions -l" in your
terminal. Depending on what printer you have installed in CUPS, you should
see a different list of options there; including EPSON-specific. Choosing
the correct options that way might even pop-up the EPSON dialog, who
knows...

That is indeed the right way to do it for applications that aren't in
some way printer-specific. Darktable shouldn't be.

Alternatively, use a toolkit-supplied printer module.

[Jean-Luc Lacroix]

"Google has developed and open-sourced a new JPEG algorithm that reduces
file size by about 35 percent"

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/google-jpeg-guetzli-encoder-file-size/

Would DT benefit from it?

Cheers.

Jean-Luc

[Remco Viëtor]

Post by Jean-Luc Lacroix
"Google has developed and open-sourced a new JPEG algorithm that reduces
file size by about 35 percent"
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/google-jpeg-guetzli-e
ncoder-file-size/
Would DT benefit from it?

You did pick up the bit about it needing 300MB per Mpix in the original?
That would mean for me at least 7 GB/image only for the compressions...
(that 300MB/MPix is mentioned on the Github repository here:
https://github.com/google/guetzli/ , linked to from the article you cited)

In addition, it seems to be slower than current jpeg encoders, and I thought the colour quality in
the "eye" exemple less than in the traditional jpeg.

I'd suggest waiting a little bit longer.

Remco

[Frank]

I am also on a Mac, and I have had no success in printing from DT. I've
waded into the CUPS parameters, but without a table of settings and how
they correspond to the "normal" driver settings (which I cannot find
anywhere) I find it impossible to get results I am satisfied with.

This is a significant drawback, but I have simply added a step to my
workflow where I export a copy with all adjustments then either import this
into Apple Photos for printing and sharing on social media, or print it
directly from Preview or other image editing software. This uses additional
storage and also creates a situation where the JPEG and processed RAW are
out of sync.

I've resigned to the fact that DT is strictly for raw processing (which it
does extremely well) and browsing/cataloging (which is does adequately).

This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the case
currently.

[Pascal Obry]

Hello Frank,

Post by Frank
This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the
case currently.

Certainly working for me on GNU/Linux. Now there is something I don't
understand. When you print from other software on Mac you're using
CUPS, right? AFAIK CUPS is the default printing queue in Mac, in fact
CUPS is maintained by Apple if I'm not mistaken.

So, why is dt not working for Mac? The current implementation does a a
pdf out of the image and send it as-is to CUPS as any other software
should do, no?

Most importantly I also feel (but I'm not a Mac user so I cannot be
sure) that the .ICC for the paper that are delivered by the paper maker
should be usable on Mac, no?

Anyway, if I'm wrong what dt should do to fix this issue?

Regards,

[Frank]

You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think it
would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive tool to
control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This system print
dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT and when calling the
CUPS options in DT, the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0
values which is not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to
the core system print resources and let the print dialog function as
normal, there would be no problem, but I guess this is also not so simple...

Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers. For consumer
printers this information is, I suppose, embedded in the driver software
and is not available to be used independently (I have examined the package
contents and not been able to find any ICC profiles). I have used an ICC
profile from another paper supplier designed for epson printers and this
did allow me to get soft proofing but did not help the printing situation
measurably.

Post by Pascal Obry
Hello Frank,

Post by Frank
This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the
case currently.

Certainly working for me on GNU/Linux. Now there is something I don't
understand. When you print from other software on Mac you're using
CUPS, right? AFAIK CUPS is the default printing queue in Mac, in fact
CUPS is maintained by Apple if I'm not mistaken.
So, why is dt not working for Mac? The current implementation does a a
pdf out of the image and send it as-is to CUPS as any other software
should do, no?
Most importantly I also feel (but I'm not a Mac user so I cannot be
sure) that the .ICC for the paper that are delivered by the paper maker
should be usable on Mac, no?
Anyway, if I'm wrong what dt should do to fix this issue?
Regards,
--
Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78)
The best way to travel is by means of imagination
http://www.obry.net
gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

[Pascal Obry]

Frank,

Post by Frank
You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT

Correct.

Post by Frank
and when calling the CUPS options in DT,

How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.

Post by Frank
the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal,

What is normal? :)

But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
adjusting the CUPS options, correct?

So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.

Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
equivalent, no?

Post by Frank
Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.

Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
prints.

Regards,

[Frank]

Post by Pascal Obry
Frank,

Post by Frank
You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT

Correct.

Post by Frank
and when calling the CUPS options in DT,

How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.

OK this is strange, I cannot find this, but I know for certain that I
previously
got access to a long list of printing variables where individual parameters
could be set by changing the value. I do not remember how I accessed this...
Maybe that was inside Scribus when I was trying to print my Chap Book?

Post by Pascal Obry

Post by Frank
the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal,

What is normal? :)

Haha, fair enough!

Post by Pascal Obry
But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
adjusting the CUPS options, correct?
So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.

And this is where you will lose the vast majority of Mac users.
This is no doubt possible, but I have no idea how to go about it
and none of this has any part in typical printing workflow on the Mac

Post by Pascal Obry
Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
equivalent, no?

Post by Frank
Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.

Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
prints.
Regards,
--
Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78)
The best way to travel is by means of imagination
http://www.obry.net
gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

[Frank]

Not Darktable specific, but useful info

With special thanks to David Vincent-Jones I think I have figured out how
to make printing from Darktable useful on the Mac

The secret is that you need to go into the CUPS server page by pointing
your browser to http://localhost:631

Once there, you can find your printer and under the menu that says
Administration you will find “set default options”
Within these options I found all the various quality and paper type
settings from my driver.
By setting these IN ADVANCE and then printing, results were as I would
expect.

If you try to set the options and get a message about web administration
not enabled,
the error message will give you a command that you simply need to cut and
paste into a terminal window and execute.

Hope this is helpful. I can now get acceptable prints out of DT without
exporting first

'Set Default Options' in CUPS brings up 6 tabs of output variables that
can be preset ... very elaborate .. this may be what you are seeing from
your sysyem!

Post by Pascal Obry
Frank,

Post by Frank
You are correct, in the background MacOS uses CUPS so one might think
it would be simple, however the system GUI provides an interactive
tool to control all the print quality settings, paper size, etc. This
system print dialog never comes up on a mac when printing from DT

Correct.

Post by Frank
and when calling the CUPS options in DT,

How do you call CUPS option from dt? This is not possible.

OK this is strange, I cannot find this, but I know for certain that I
previously
got access to a long list of printing variables where individual parameters
could be set by changing the value. I do not remember how I accessed this...
Maybe that was inside Scribus when I was trying to print my Chap Book?

Post by Pascal Obry

Post by Frank
the user gets a VERY long list of variables with 1-0 values which is
not much help. If the DT print process just handed off to the core
system print resources and let the print dialog function as normal,

What is normal? :)

Haha, fair enough!

Post by Pascal Obry
But I'm a bit lost here. You're printing fine using another software by
adjusting the CUPS options, correct?
So, why can't you go to CUPS server, create a queue (say: dt-print),
select the same settings that are working fine with the other software.

And this is where you will lose the vast majority of Mac users.
This is no doubt possible, but I have no idea how to go about it
and none of this has any part in typical printing workflow on the Mac

Post by Pascal Obry
Then on dt just select this print queue (dt-print) that should be 100%
equivalent, no?

Post by Frank
Epson only provide ICC profiles for certain high end printers.

Right. And in other printer it is quite difficult to have correct
prints.
Regards,
--
Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78)
The best way to travel is by means of imagination
http://www.obry.net
gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

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[Jean-Luc CECCOLI]

It's not free, but the Linux version is awesome : http://www.printfab.net/

 

Rgrds,

 

J.-Luc

 

 

 

 

Message du 15/03/17 15:04
De : "Frank"
Objet : Re: [darktable-user] Printing Problem Epson ABW Mode

I am also on a Mac, and I have had no success in printing from DT. I've waded into the CUPS parameters, but without a table of settings and how they correspond to the "normal" driver settings (which I cannot find anywhere) I find it impossible to get results I am satisfied with. 
This is a significant drawback, but I have simply added a step to my workflow where I export a copy with all adjustments then either import this into Apple Photos for printing and sharing on social media, or print it directly from Preview or other image editing software. This uses additional storage and also creates a situation where the JPEG and processed RAW are out of sync.
I've resigned to the fact that DT is strictly for raw processing (which it does extremely well) and browsing/cataloging (which is does adequately).
This may not be true on Linux, but on the Mac it is definitely the case currently.