Discussion:
[Darktable-users] Film roll vs folder
d***@911networks.com
2015-11-16 18:17:00 UTC
Permalink
DT 1.6.9.

Sorry but I don't understand the difference between a film roll and a
folder.

What happens to the film roll when I keep adding images to the folder
and import "folder"?
--
sknahT

vyS
Patrick Shanahan
2015-11-16 20:19:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@911networks.com
DT 1.6.9.
Sorry but I don't understand the difference between a film roll and a
folder.
A "film roll" is a *collection* of images whereas a folder is a directory,
a storage structure.
Post by d***@911networks.com
What happens to the film roll when I keep adding images to the folder
and import "folder"?
When you "import", you assign a "film roll". If you import a "folder",
you import all target files withing that folder. If you later add to that
"folder", your film roll is not affected.

A "film roll" may contain images from many or only one "folder", and all
or only a few within that "folder"/directory.

Liken a "collection", re: film roll, to a link to several or only one
file.
--
(paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net
d***@911networks.com
2015-11-16 21:46:59 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 15:19:45 -0500
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
Sorry but I don't understand the difference between a film roll
and a folder.
A "film roll" is a *collection* of images whereas a folder is a
directory, a storage structure.
Post by d***@911networks.com
What happens to the film roll when I keep adding images to the
folder and import "folder"?
When you "import", you assign a "film roll". If you import a
"folder", you import all target files withing that folder. If you
later add to that "folder", your film roll is not affected.
A "film roll" may contain images from many or only one "folder", and
all or only a few within that "folder"/directory.
Liken a "collection", re: film roll, to a link to several or only one
file.
1. Thanks for the help, very appreciated. DT is very powerful
2. How to I add other images/folders to a film roll?
--
sknahT

vyS
Patrick Shanahan
2015-11-17 00:29:36 UTC
Permalink
* ***@911networks.com <***@911networks.com> [11-16-15 16:50]:
[...]
Post by d***@911networks.com
1. Thanks for the help, very appreciated. DT is very powerful
2. How to I add other images/folders to a film roll?
Add soft links to the images you want to add to the directory where the
rest of the film roll resides, then import the added images or reimport
the entire directory.

Note that you may make a collection of images that are not in the same
directory by using tags or date or ..., using the module "collect images".
--
(paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Shanahan
2015-11-17 00:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick Shanahan
[...]
Post by d***@911networks.com
1. Thanks for the help, very appreciated. DT is very powerful
2. How to I add other images/folders to a film roll?
Add soft links to the images you want to add to the directory where the
rest of the film roll resides, then import the added images or reimport
the entire directory.
Note that you may make a collection of images that are not in the same
directory by using tags or date or ..., using the module "collect images".
Or: just add them to the original directory and import or reimport...
--
(paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri
http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank J.
2015-11-17 06:35:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick Shanahan
[...]
...
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
2. How to I add other images/folders to a film roll?
....
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Or: just add them to the original directory and import or reimport...
He asked how to add them to the "film roll".
You answered to add them to the "directory".

This points back to the initial question: What is the difference ;-)

Can I add it "logically" to the "film roll" without changing the
file-structure?

--

Frank


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tobias Ellinghaus
2015-11-17 10:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank J.
Post by Patrick Shanahan
[...]
...
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
2. How to I add other images/folders to a film roll?
....
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Or: just add them to the original directory and import or reimport...
He asked how to add them to the "film roll".
You answered to add them to the "directory".
This points back to the initial question: What is the difference ;-)
Can I add it "logically" to the "film roll" without changing the
file-structure?
You can't. No idea where that idea comes from.

The difference is quite simple: A "folder" is something on your system level,
inside dt we call it a "filmroll". That's it. In general it's a 1:1 mapping,
however, you can copy images to a folder after importing it or remove imported
images inb dt while keeping them on the disk. So there may be cases where the
content of folder and filmroll differ, thus we call them differently.

Tobias
Post by Frank J.
--
Frank
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Steven Fosdick
2015-11-17 13:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tobias Ellinghaus
You can't. No idea where that idea comes from.
The difference is quite simple: A "folder" is something on your system level,
inside dt we call it a "filmroll". That's it. In general it's a 1:1 mapping,
however, you can copy images to a folder after importing it or remove imported
images inb dt while keeping them on the disk. So there may be cases where the
content of folder and filmroll differ, thus we call them differently.
For me there is a 1:1 correspondence, i.e. I don't add pictures to a folder
that has previously been imported into darktable without importing them and
I don't delete pictures from under darktable. If you add pictures to a
folder and re-import the folder darktable seems to be clever enough to
import the extras - at least in the sense it does not lose the edits on the
ones originally imported.

When I first started with darktable I wasn't sure what to make of "film
roll" as an organisational tool. I came to the conclusion it was simply a
batch of picture imported together in the same way a roll of film would be
developed at one time and that roll may correspond to something in real
life like an event, a studio shoot, a holiday etc. or it may just be a bit
of a mix.

In practice, I tend to import pictures frequently so much more than would
be the case with film there is something to tie the pictures together,
though just what that is varies.

Prior to darktable I used a couple of picture management applications both
of which, as far as I remember, encouraged the use of tags under a tree for
which the top level tags were "Events", "People" and "Places". I don't
always add an "event" tag but I do often use the other two and tags can be
used to have a virtual collection that spans film rolls so, for example, if
you tag people you can then find all the photos down the years that feature
the same person or with place tags you can compare the same location in the
spring, summer and autumn even if these are in different film rolls.
Tagging is really as powerful as you want to make it and how much effort
you want to put in.
Rolf-Werner Eilert
2015-11-17 17:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tobias Ellinghaus
Post by Frank J.
Post by Patrick Shanahan
[...]
...
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
2. How to I add other images/folders to a film roll?
....
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Or: just add them to the original directory and import or reimport...
He asked how to add them to the "film roll".
You answered to add them to the "directory".
This points back to the initial question: What is the difference ;-)
Can I add it "logically" to the "film roll" without changing the
file-structure?
You can't. No idea where that idea comes from.
The difference is quite simple: A "folder" is something on your system level,
inside dt we call it a "filmroll". That's it. In general it's a 1:1 mapping,
however, you can copy images to a folder after importing it or remove imported
images inb dt while keeping them on the disk. So there may be cases where the
content of folder and filmroll differ, thus we call them differently.
Tobias
Is there a physical import of the picture data, or does dt only make a
database entry, like a reference or link combined with some processing
data? And if there is a reference only, are the original data being
affected in some way during my work?

Rolf


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
johannes hanika
2015-11-17 17:14:10 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Rolf-Werner Eilert
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
Post by Tobias Ellinghaus
Post by Frank J.
Post by Patrick Shanahan
[...]
...
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
2. How to I add other images/folders to a film roll?
....
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Or: just add them to the original directory and import or reimport...
He asked how to add them to the "film roll".
You answered to add them to the "directory".
This points back to the initial question: What is the difference ;-)
Can I add it "logically" to the "film roll" without changing the
file-structure?
You can't. No idea where that idea comes from.
The difference is quite simple: A "folder" is something on your system level,
inside dt we call it a "filmroll". That's it. In general it's a 1:1 mapping,
however, you can copy images to a folder after importing it or remove imported
images inb dt while keeping them on the disk. So there may be cases where the
content of folder and filmroll differ, thus we call them differently.
Tobias
Is there a physical import of the picture data, or does dt only make a
database entry, like a reference or link combined with some processing
data?
yes, reference only. we don't impose a particular data layout on disk
on you, you're free to organise your pictures which ever way you want
in the physical folder layout (and do that with different tools if you
want).
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
And if there is a reference only, are the original data being
affected in some way during my work?
no, we never write your raw files or any input images for that matter.
all information will end up in the accompanying xmp files (and the
db).
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
Rolf
-jo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
d***@stefan-klinger.de
2015-11-17 09:11:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
DT 1.6.9.
Sorry but I don't understand the difference between a film roll and a
folder.
A "film roll" is a *collection* of images whereas a folder is a directory,
a storage structure.
This is not correct. According to the DT Manual, a collection is what
you see in the middle area of the Lighttable. The properties of the
collection (i.e., which images are chosen) is determined by the
"collect images" thing on the left side of Lighttable.

By default, the collection is based on the "film roll" attribute. An
image has this attribute assigned when importing, and it is nothing
but the path it resides in. If you think in databas terms, it is what
an SQL SELECT statement would return for a query defined through
"collect images" — not to be confused with a selection you make by
clicking with the mouse on an image.

Unfortunately, "film roll" is just a new name for path, or folder, or
directory (not that we did not have a few to choose from), confusing
people. Also there's a "selected images > remove (remove from
collection)" button on the right side of Lighttable, which however
does not just exclude the image from the curren selection as it says,
but also seems to purge it from the database.

Yes, I'm not happy with this, but I did not invent it.

To add images to a film roll, put it into the respective directory,
and reimpor that directory, or explicitly import that image.
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
What happens to the film roll when I keep adding images to the folder
and import "folder"?
When you "import", you assign a "film roll". If you import a "folder",
you import all target files withing that folder. If you later add to that
"folder", your film roll is not affected.
Exactly, because DT won't notice.
Post by Patrick Shanahan
A "film roll" may contain images from many or only one "folder",
Many different folders? I doubt that. Could you tell the steps how
to achieve this?


Greetings
Stefan
--
http://stefan-klinger.de o/X
Send plain text messages only, not exceeding 32kB. /\/
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Mandel
2015-11-17 09:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Am 17.11.2015 um 10:11 schrieb
Post by d***@stefan-klinger.de
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
DT 1.6.9.
Sorry but I don't understand the difference between a film roll and a
folder.
A "film roll" is a *collection* of images whereas a folder is a directory,
a storage structure.
This is not correct. According to the DT Manual, a collection is what
you see in the middle area of the Lighttable. The properties of the
collection (i.e., which images are chosen) is determined by the
"collect images" thing on the left side of Lighttable.
By default, the collection is based on the "film roll" attribute. An
image has this attribute assigned when importing, and it is nothing
but the path it resides in. If you think in databas terms, it is what
an SQL SELECT statement would return for a query defined through
"collect images" — not to be confused with a selection you make by
clicking with the mouse on an image.
Unfortunately, "film roll" is just a new name for path, or folder, or
directory (not that we did not have a few to choose from), confusing
people.
It is not exactly the same, as you write yourself later. The difference
is that a reimport of the folder is needed to synchronize the film roll
with the folder. Therefore, a different, "new" name is justified. I
guess most people would expect a folder concept within dt to reflect the
state on disc all the time, meaning if I delete an image outside dt this
change would immediately show up inside dt, what is not the case.

Best regards

Chris
Post by d***@stefan-klinger.de
Also there's a "selected images > remove (remove from
collection)" button on the right side of Lighttable, which however
does not just exclude the image from the curren selection as it says,
but also seems to purge it from the database.
Yes, I'm not happy with this, but I did not invent it.
To add images to a film roll, put it into the respective directory,
and reimpor that directory, or explicitly import that image.
Post by Patrick Shanahan
Post by d***@911networks.com
What happens to the film roll when I keep adding images to the folder
and import "folder"?
When you "import", you assign a "film roll". If you import a "folder",
you import all target files withing that folder. If you later add to that
"folder", your film roll is not affected.
Exactly, because DT won't notice.
Post by Patrick Shanahan
A "film roll" may contain images from many or only one "folder",
Many different folders? I doubt that. Could you tell the steps how
to achieve this?
Greetings
Stefan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a***@yahoo.com
2015-11-16 20:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@911networks.com
What happens to the film roll when I keep adding images to the folder
and import "folder"?
New images will be added to the roll.
From: "***@911networks.com" <***@911networks.com>
To: darktable-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 10:17 AM
Subject: [Darktable-users] Film roll vs folder

DT 1.6.9.

Sorry but I don't understand the difference between a film roll and a
folder.

What happens to the film roll when I keep adding images to the folder
and import "folder"?
--
sknahT

vyS
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